Project Hail Mary — Transcription

Uh, this week.

Shit.

It's been so long since I said this week.

Oh boy, this month, um, we are try something a little bit different.

Yeah, no.

There is, there is such thing as too topical and that is it.

No, um, this month on the show, we are going to be talking about Project Hail Mary.

amaze, amaze, amaze.

I am going to talk like my namesake character for the entire show.

I can't commit to that bit.

I thought it was adapted quite faithfully to the screen, although I have my, I have some feelings about whether or not a faithful adaptation was the right thing to do.

I thought it was fun to watch.

You're right.

It doesn't quite scratch the same itch that watching something like the Martian or even something like Apollo 13, which was one of my favourite movies.

Um, in the, like, game space, I think, a similar kind of uh, set of tropes exists in terraforming Mars, and I say this because I have a board game arena tab open on my screen at the moment.

So it's like, it's front of mind.

Exactly.

And this was.

It was a kind of that, but it wasn't only that.

It was tempered with some other things.

Yeah, it's exactly, it's, it is the, uh, a genre which like highlights the huge issue with like, I guess, the, the gulf between player expertise and character expertise, because it's, it's just not fun to say, I'd like to solve this problem, which the GM has told you, and then you roll, and then the GM tells you how you solve the problem.

Like, there really is no oxygen on Mars.

So we can't just like hand wave and say, oh, well, actually, I found one of those Martian oxygen pockets.

It's like that, in the story of the Martian, that doesn't work.

If Mark Watney was like, and then I found a secret underground cave and it was full of beautiful plants and like breathable atmosphere.

Like,

Yeah, so should we talk about what those are?

That's kind of the thing that we want to have a chance to to play.

So like, he runs out of like astrophage fueler finds out that like the, the, uh, what are they called?

The Talmebas have gotten into his astrophage and then he has to like fix his astrophage tanks.

He finds out that like, you know, there's a problem with the spin gravity and he's got to fix it up.

He finds out that like what he needs is down in the atmosphere and he's got to figure out a way to skate through the top of the atmosphere.

So all of the like beats, I guess, of the book, that the, or the movie.

The thing that keeps happening over and over again, your core sort of loop and cycle is like problem solution, problem solution, problem solution.

That's what each scene in the movie is about, at least in the sort of forward progression of time in the film, right?

So we just keep having these problems come up and then the immediate thing that you've got to do is try to solve them.

As Mark Watney would say, science the shit out of them, right?

They're either problems that are to do with the overarching mission, which I think is a separate pillar, which I'll get to in a sec, but there are also problems that like, certainly towards the start.

They're also things that might kill you, right?

There's a saying in real astronaut training, which is that you work the problem.

So it's like whatever is the next thing that is about to kill you, that's the thing that you need to be working on.

Yep.

And it's this is the like, this is the thing that these stories, I think, do really well because, yeah, if you're in a contained environment where all of your things that you need to survive are provided by breakable machinery, right?

Your oxygen, your water, your food.

You're like radiation shielding is something that can go wrong and break.

And I think in these stories often does.

Then it's like, okay, well, I need to patch the leak 1st because if I, if all of the air goes out of the spaceship, I can't breathe.

But like, on the long horizon, to borrow one from the film, it's like, yeah, he does get like leaks in the spacecraft at various parts, like, and those are always the 1st priority.

But looking in the background is always the idea that's like, I'm going to run out of food eventually.

And I think this is the 1st point where Project Hail Mary starts to differ from something like the Martian, right?

Mark's goal in the Martian is just to survive, and to kind of keep surviving, and the folks on Earth have some various things that they try, but at no point, like, at no point is, does Mark have an overarching thing that he's trying to achieve?

He just wants to stay alive.

Is he trying to get a signal out?

Is he trying to like get off Mars?

Is he trying to launch himself?

Hope?

Like, he never has a plan.

There is no like Mark has been left on Mars on purpose to achieve a goal.

He's literally just like, he is just doing that core loop, and that's super satisfying, but I don't think it's enough to necessarily sustain a piece of fiction, especially a piece of tabletop fiction on his own.

So, yeah, Project Hail Mary is different in that he has a mission.

His mission is to figure out what is going on with this one star that doesn't appear to be affected by the astrophage, and if he can, make that solution available to Earth somehow.

So there's like, there's a direction, right?

Like unlike the Martian where it's just problem of the week.

And I think that's kind of reflected in the fact that the Martian was originally serialised.

So he was doing, literally, he would write himself into a corner and have something go wrong and then pick up the next chapter and solve the problem and then write himself another problem.

chapter by chapter.

Who would have thunk it?

And Project Hail Mary is different.

Project Hail Mary, we have a mission.

We don't find out what it is straight away, but it's always there in the background kind of shaping everything.

He has a goal and his goal is to save Earth.

It's pretty basic as goals go.

Yeah, and those are spots where like stuff comes in.

He doesn't know what he's going to find when he gets there.

All he knows is that like the solution he needs is somewhere in this solar system and he's going to dig around until he finds it, but he does have a mission to accomplish.

So I think that's one thing that sets Project Hail Mary apart is that it's not just survival.

So there are 2 others that, again, show up in Project Hail Mary that don't show up necessarily in the Martian, and I think there's a reason for this.

I think it's that the Martian was very much Andy Weir's 1st book and it was written sort of serialised and it was written for like an online audience who very much wanted to see that competence porn stuff.

And this is a later one and he's learned things like interpersonal relationships and character development.

Exactly.

So we very quickly don't have, we very quickly get out of that, the Martian mode where it's like one dude and his immediate problems and we get into this like developing relationship, 1st this like developing communication, um, but then there's developing relationship with Rocky.

Like, we've got the problem solving, we've got the mission, we've got a buddy film happening in there as well.

We have like managing the relationship with Rocko.

We have like Rocky is a terrible roommate.

There is, and this is, again, a thing that does not appear in the Martian does not really appear in like Apollo 13.

We have augmented kind of by the amnesia, uh, mechanic of the story.

We have grace slowly kind of remembering slash realising what kind of person he is.

So on top of our like relationship, or alongside our relationship developing, we also have Grace figuring out that like he's not actually the hero, he was never meant to be here.

He did not volunteer for this mission.

He's not brave.

He's kind of a coward and having to reckon with that.

So there's a lot of like, he has this arc where he's like, I'm remembering more.

I think I'm the hero.

Oh, no, it turns out I'm not the hero.

Well, actually maybe I can kind of do this my way.

I think flashbacks are absolutely the way to do it.

You don't necessarily have to do it with amnesia, but I think flashbacks are the way.

The other one that does this that comes to mind that is sort of similar or at least has this thread, not necessarily all of the others, but has a similar like this thread of like personal growth and why are we here and how do we feel about probably the fact that this is a one way mission?

Um, is sunshine.

Because yeah, that one does flashback a lot to Earth and like why everyone on the ship is there and that's that's a good one.

You should read to be taught if fortunate by Becky Chambers.

If you enjoyed Project Hail Mary, you will enjoy to be taught.

But yes, it's a similar similar kind of thing where we've got that thread of like seeing why characters are the way they are using information from their past and like why did they choose to be on the mission?

And there's almost in some of them, again, when we've got more people on the crew, um, in some of these, like, stories, we have almost a cowboy bebop-esque, like, some of them are like, here because they're very mission dream, but some of them will be like, well, I am a misanthrope and I'm running away from everything, and that's almost where gracelands, right?

He's like, he doesn't really have any friends on earth, which he eventually realises and that kind of prompts his decision to like maybe stay on Rocky's planet.

Um, it's like, it's so weird to say that it's so weird to use my own name in the, like, 3rd person.

He's like, I actually don't, over the course of the film, he realises like, I actually don't have anything to go back to.

That's, that's kind of, for me, the last thread.

And that's kind of also, I think the big function of the flashback.

So I do want to stop and talk about the flashbacks for a 2nd because I think they're incredibly useful storytelling tool.

Um, and as we both know there are, there also can be, certainly for some games that we like on the show.

They are a very powerful game mechanic.

There's 2 things that they're doing.

There's 2 functions that they're performing in this movie.

And I think only one of them works for the movie, but I think both of them work for a game.

Exactly.

So that's kind of the like, I guess, kind of the underlying enjoyment of the competence porn genre is this idea that like, ah.

If I had been in that situation or if I had been, and sometimes you are, if you're reading that book also as an expert or also as a space fan, you can see his like next steps and you can kind of predict them, you can kind of figure them out before the character does or as the character does, there's a real satisfaction of being like, yes, that's it.

A little more space between those things, I think, would have made it a more tense movie, but as it is, it's like every time we come up to a problem, it's like, and now we go into a flashback, we learn the science, we're going to use to solve it and we solve it.

There's no pay off to like trying to work ahead as a viewer.

However, I think as a game mechanic where the people making up the story and the people enjoying the story are the same person.

I actually think that is a really good thing.

But I think it does hinge on that ability to make up science.

So you could never do this just like on Mars with more or less current technology because the ability to make up facts.

Yes, have them stick around.

Yes, build on other facts that you've previously made up, but the ability to essentially make up science is really key to having this story work.

You have to be able to say like, ah, well, actually, and then I find out that consistent with other things, but new information, astrophage behaves like this under these circumstances, and that's now an established fact, and we will build on that later, but it also helps us solve the immediate problem.

Right?

Before we jump into what I'm sure our regulars will immediately have mapped onto some game structures to do with mechanics and allowing persistent aspects of the world to be referred back to for narrative and mechanical effect.

Before we jump into the inevitable.

Shall we do a quick like, yeah, quick run through?

So we've got 4 pillars.

affects just me, affects everybody, or affects multiple people.

And what the plot is doing is, yeah, we've got that core loop of like solve a problem solver problem, solver problem solver problem, which an activity for the reader at home is like perhaps all RPGs are just solve a problem solver problem solver problem.

Where was I?

Oh, yeah.

That like, we're always doing that loop.

But which quadrant we're in, which peeler we're currently iterating on hops around, which the Martian, for example, does not.

The Martian is always in, what is the next immediate physical problem?

We don't really go into Watney's backstory.

There isn't really a save the world aspect.

There is not really any relationship.

So we're just always in that quadrant.

And we're always in that quadrant with real science and that makes it really hard to just actually play in that space.

I really like that you've said like actually this is the function of the video diaries or the captain's logs.

I think there's probably some things that we want to do together at the table.

Um, but maybe at least come prepared with some, some sparks for that.

So I think as game masters, we want to be preparing some things that can go wrong.

specifically.

We want some things that can go wrong in the immediate environment that the players are in.

I think we want to be prepping a big overarching mission, and I'm torn on whether this is like, I think it's easier for you to prep if this is something that you've sort of pre-decided in advance, but I think there's a, it might be nice for her to be something that you discuss or decide on as a group.

But yeah, I think the, at the very least, you need a couple of things to, in your getting started.

Um, you're like starter deck of like things that can go wrong problems.

Right?

I don't think you need a full session's worth, um, for reasons that I get to in a sec, but you at least need a couple to like get things going.

So I think you need a mission.

I think you need some things to get wrong.

I think the players need to come with some idea of the kind of characters that they want to play.

Uh, and maybe some ideas of the relationships that they want to have.

Um, so it almost splits along the quadrants that we that we talked about earlier, right?

I was like, you as the game master, I think you need to bring everything in, the science, Quadrants.

You need to bring the, like, overarching mission and at least some of the, uh, some of the problems that are going to happen that it might be immediate, the immediate issues.

Who whose behaviour annoyed?

You've arrived at the system.

You've been left on the planet, like, the launch, and the years of cryo sleep to get there are like not interesting.

It's like when are we going to start solving problems?

I feel like this is one thing that you like.

Because in order to do the problem solving stuff.

They're going to need to make up some science, right?

You want to give them a specific overarching problem to solve.

And I think just to let my, like, theatrical, actually, how do we deliver this at the table side coming out?

I think an opening monologue where it's like, you sit down, there's, you have the, like, lull.

everyone is looking expectantly at the game master and you're like, the earth is dying.

Right?

I'm like, I know what I've been told here, which is like, these facts about how the world works and that gives them something to key off.

So your science officer might say that they've got certain, there's like, there's a science lab and it's gotten these things in it and you're,

You know, your engineer might be like, oh, well, we've got engines here and the engines work like this.

It's the big, like, side on diagram of the ship that they always inexplicably having the background to remind you that you're on a ship.

We've got a mission monologue, we've got some, I estimate, immediate ideas of problems that might come up.

But then I think as you go, yeah, you're mostly, I think, having players populate the world building, um, declare facts about how the world works, how the science works, all of this stuff, having those out and kind of referenceable, and then I think you as the game master get to basically look at all of the things that the players have put out, the facts that are true about the world, about the relationships about like all of their stuff.

They're presenting you with all of these true things.

Once you've got that that wheel rolling.

like, these 2 things have interacted in a way that is detrimental and now you need to solve it.

Like, what are you going to do?

And hopefully that's then on them to pick up like, well, I'm gonna make up a new thing over here, but also pull in these things that already happened, these events or these facts about the world or these whatevers.

I'm going to pull in this stuff and use that to help solve it.

And you've just said that the problem is with this.

So if we do this, with this, like, they become their experts.

And I think we're going to see a lot of things.

Who would like a mundane scene they're called in uh, Tales from the like?

Like, who would like a mundane scene?

We're due for a mundane scene, who wants a relationship scene or if you do a diary scene, right?

Like that's, that's, something that you, as the game master, part of the, like, way that you're moderating the pacing is to proactively prompt the players to take these actions because it's really important for the way the game feels for us to alternate between these, like, relationship-y scenes and these problem solving E scenes.

And if left to their own devices, the players are just going to want to focus on the like, physical problems that are about to kill them. And one of the things I think in this kind of game that you have to do, this kind of fiction that you have to do.

Having established that, like, the thing that makes the movie work and especially the thing that makes this work as a game is the fact that we have these different threads and we're swapping between them, like, part of your job as game master at the table is to make sure that that is happening and that we're not just locking in on the mission or, like, let's speed run solving the mission and we all die.

Let's just like try and survive.

Let's all just like talk about our feelings.

like, you can't do the same scene twice.

You can't do 2 problem solving scenes.

you can't do 2 mission scenes, you can't do, like, you can't do 2 scenes of the same type back to back.

So like, almost like little gear stick.

It's like, okay, where are you going to change?

We're going to like shift down, shift up.

Like, what are we going to do next?

Um, one thing I would add to that is that I think the stuff that you are putting in the, like, the big, certainly in the science section, actually, maybe both of them, those are really good, that's a really good place for our kicks to live.

So I think that's a really good place for some of those.

nice ones that you want to prep in advance or fun ones to easy ones to prep in advance as well.

Um, and they are things like in Project Hail Mary, there would be things like the sensors have detected a Petrova line.

So now we've got to figure out like, okay, well, why does this star have a petrova line but not appear to be dimming or you've seen another ship, right?

there's another object out here.

Like, what are you going to do about it?

Um, so there you're like big plot beats and there are things that like if it's, if things are not moving along, they're kind of the things where you want to be able to like drop them into play, it's like, okay, we have changed acts.

Right?

Like, it's now act 2 and we're dealing with the aliens, it's now act 3 and we're dealing with the, like, Talmiba escape, like, those are your big transition points.

I think those are quite useful things to at least have prepped in advance.

It's not so that you have to stick to those ones, um, but to have some ideas about how you might kick the plot forward, how, what big advances in that overarching mission might look like, because that's, that's why I was like, that's not our backbone.

The core loop is not our backbone.

Like the mission is our backbone.

That's kind of the, the, the trajectory, right?

like this is the trajectory that we're on and you're, you're going to start like, you know, an Apollo mission on a free return trajectory on a particular trajectory and that's going to change over the course of the thing, but like, you can certainly map out like if we stay on,

Uh, a trajectory that, He's a, a, a fairly conventional sort of solve for this.

What would our big discoveries be related to this um, to this thing?

And and and just giving them a kind of box of filling.

It's like, okay, the, the sensors chime, they've detected something in the space between like this star, like the sensor sweep is complete.

They found something between the star and the 1st planet, like, what is it?

you know?

That, that's the kind of prompt that we're, that we're thinking about.

It's not, it's not necessarily like this plot point happens, now deal with it.

I think you need to know how you're gonna pilot this game.

Um, but I think you're absolutely right.

And I think more than any other kind of genre, them having the competence porn experience depends on them filling the content themselves.

It can't just be you telling them how the world works.

Otherwise, they're not going to have that familiarity that they need to feel competent with the world that they've built.

So you actually kind of have to leave, give yourself lots and lots of places that the players can fill in the blanks.

Spaceship, drive the spaceship.

Let's not mix our metaphors.

I feel like this is another classic one where like, and now it doesn't matter what system you run it in, but there are some particular systems that do have tools that I want.

Just because it has the thing that we need, which is that we can write facts about the world on a card and have it be an invocable part of the game mechanics.

I think that part of fate is, if we're not running it in fate, that is something that we want to try and find a similar, something similar to do.

I think another thing that does something similar that's worth a read is microscope.

Yeah, exactly.

And, and ditto with the, I don't, yeah, again, it's the skipping around in time thing that doesn't like quite work, but the seeing aspects of the world and like, building on them and drilling down to add detail and drilling down to add detail and like, and, add detail feels very microscopy and like, being rewarded for building connections between eras.

Yeah, I think it's one of those things where it's like you will benefit from having red blades in the dark or run blades in the dark because it will give you a really good handle on how you could just like run a nice flashback.

The other one that I want to mention, and it's been a long time since I read it, but it touches on some of the, I think, personal vibes.

Is one that I got in a humble bundle a little while ago.

It's called Our Last Best Hope. And it is playing a little bit more in that, like, the core sunshine type space where it's like, you know you are on a one way mission.

You have like chosen to leave earth behind. Or like, what's the other one? Like, your Armageddons, right?

Again, I should have given another skim before I sat down to record, but I've just remembered it now.

Exactly.

Um, so there is like, It does have, I, I seem to recall some good content for that kind of thing.

So I would maybe give that one a look, even if just to nick some ideas from.

Um, but I think you're onto an absolute winner with lasers and feelings.

Missions to the moon have become extremely boring.

Um, and your job is to, like, have as mundane a mood mission as possible.

And if things do go wrong, they have to be like the most mundane thing.

Like if it gets exciting at any point, much like real space flight.

If it gets exciting at any point, like, it's gone wrong.

Um, but this is like the most exciting thing that should be happening should be like, uh, confirm, uh, control.

I will be applying the pistol grip tool to the uh, Hexbolt number 47.

Uh, sorry, uh, space work, that should be Hex Bolt number 46.

Yep, confirm Houston.

Uh, I missed, like, understood, we'll be applying to HexBolt 46, not HexBolt 47.

Um, like, It's great, and it's just like you do techno babble, Apollo themed techno babble back and forth to each other.

It's solo drama to the point where I think they advise you not to play it or to play it as like a, almost like a play by email or a play by chat game where it's just like, you pop into the chat and post a little bit, but it's kind of an always on in the background thing. And the rules are a couple of pages and then most of the rest of the the game book is one of the Apollo.

So is that it?

All right, this has been platonics.

Thanks so much for joining us.

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