Jords
Hi, welcome to Playtonics.2s
I'm Jords.
Rocky
I'm Rocky, and this is the show where we adapt TV shows and movies and books and all kinds of fiction, really, into role-playing game sessions.13s
We talk about what you got to prep, uh, and how you're going to run it at the table to make a session that actually feels like the thing that you're trying to, uh, to nail.24s
This month.26s
We have a little bit of a throwback, a little bit of a nostalgia kick, something that I have rewatched recently.36s
Jords, I think you will agree that you have got a friend in me.42s
This month we are doing Toy Story.45s
And I have got opinions about this.49s
The reason I picked Toy Story is pretty, it lets us do a couple of things, and we have a very long list of types of stories that we want to talk about, and Toy Story.59s
lets us talk about more than one of them.1m 2s
So it's really an efficiency thing.1m 4s
for us to get through a couple of topics in one go.1m 7s
Since this is usually your Baliwick, Jords, do you want to give us the like 62nd recap of what Toy Story is about?1m 16s
Not because I don't think anyone in the audience has heard it.1m 19s
Mostly just because I want to know how the heck you summarise it.
Jords
Okay, so there are toys that live in the toy box.
Rocky
Uh-huh.1m 26s
Uh-huh.
Jords
One of them's the leader of the toys.1m 29s
Everyone accepts that.1m 30s
But then there's a new toy on the block, and he rocks up onto the scene and smashes the current world order, and the old leader doesn't like this.1m 41s
It threatens his very identity as being the favourite toy, and everyone accepts him as being the favourite toy.1m 48s
So what does he do?1m 49s
Cause havoc.1m 51s
And then smother chicanery happens, and there's another kid with some weird toys, and turns out they're actually just misunderstood and abused all along the way.1m 59s
It gets quite dark.2m
When we go into that world.2m 3s
But there's like a great adventurer and everybody goes out of the house and then comes back along the way and then everyone makes peace and they're offering.
Rocky
Yeah, it's a it's a pretty classic narrative.2m 13s
I think the one key point that you forgot there is the premise of the movie, which is that your toys are alive.
Jords
Oh yeah, probably should have said that bit.
Rocky
Toy?
Jords
Yeah.2m 21s
The toys are alive, but only when you're not looking.
Rocky
Toys are sentient, but you are, for some reason, it is never explored.2m 30s
You are not allowed to see them move.2m 33s
So when you're not watching, your quantum toys come to life.
Jords
It is just like the ultimate tease.2m 39s
Because when you're a kid, you're like, oh, I'm playing with my toys and this world only lives in my head, wouldn't it be great if they could talk back?2m 45s
And the answer is, yes, they can, but not to you.
Rocky
They're just hiding it from you.
Jords
The ultimate exclusionary thing.
Rocky
They just don't like you enough.2m 52s
Maybe if you were a better kid, your toys would talk to you.
Jords
Oh, oh.
Rocky
You just don't deserve it.
Jords
It's a brutal message.3m 2s
So let's skim right over that part and go to the more wholesome chicanery that occurs.
Rocky
That's twice I've heard chicanery this year and it's on this show.3m 10s
Yeah, look, I think you touched on a couple of important things there, and so there's 22 things that have been on our list for a while that I have wanted to talk about.3m 22s
Toy Story lets us talk about both of them.3m 24s
So one of them is what, for lack of a better word, I'm calling the honey I shrunk the kids trope.
Jords
Mm-hmm.
Rocky
Um, but it is like being small in a big world, uh, which I think is great fun and the toys definitely get to play a lot in that space pun, not intended, but we're leaning into it.3m 43s
And the 2nd one is the prison break.3m 47s
So if you look at it kind of structurally, every Toy Story movie is not at its heart, but at its shape, because I think at its heart it's something else, but in its shape, it is a prison break, right?4m 2s
So Toy Story one, Buzz and Woody get stuck in Sid's house, Toy Story 2.4m 9s
They get kidnapped by Al from Al's Toy Barn and they are trying to be rescued from the outside, even though Woody's vacillates between wanting to go and not wanting to go.4m 21s
And Toy Story 3 is, I think, this is the one that I watched most recently.4m 26s
And Toy Story 3 doesn't even try to hide it, right?4m 30s
Like it's explicitly, they get sent to a daycare, they get donated.4m 34s
There are like guard towers with searchlights and roving patrols, and they get like locked in toy baskets.4m 42s
So.
Jords
So we have tiny folk doing prison break.
Rocky
We have tiny people doing prison breaks.
Jords
That that's our trope here.
Rocky
That's that's the 2 tropes that I think are ones that are on our list that we explore.4m 55s
There are some other things that I think make it Toy Story, that that more Pixari stuff about, you know, love and heart and meaning, but like, I think those 2 ones are the ones that kind of, I think are.
Jords
The big structural elements?
Rocky
Well, not even not even structural, but they're the things that I am most interested to talk about putting into a game.
Jords
See, I think this is one where we are coming at this from each other's perspectives because I actually went down to like the character level.5m 26s
For me, Toy Story is about every character having like an identity crisis.5m 31s
The thing that makes that toy them gets challenged every time.5m 36s
So like with Woody, it's his his dominance as the the prime toy, the most favoured one and being you're served by the cool new kid on the block and he doesn't like that.5m 47s
And for Buzz, it's the reckoning that he's actually not an elite space rate.
Rocky
You are a toy.
Jords
Yeah.
Rocky
Genuinely one of the greatest movie speeches of all time.
Jords
The the lack of relevance to the whole community of toys as Andy grows up and moves on from them being a central part of his life.6m 11s
I feel like that's that's the bit that I really gravitated towards in here, the real character driven aspect of it.
Rocky
Excellent.6m 18s
So which half do you want to do first?
Jords
Let's go big picture.6m 24s
Let's go structure.6m 25s
We love structure because that informs content.6m 27s
So, talk to me.6m 28s
Honey, I shrunk the kids.6m 29s
Small people in a big world.6m 31s
What are the identity elements that you have to have to make this game feel like that.
Rocky
It really comes into how you as a gay master are prepping your environments.6m 42s
Um, and I think my favourite example of this from the movies is the seedy crime den slash club slash poker night, uh, that is inside the illuminated sign on top of a vending machine, uh, in the daycare in Toy Story 3.7m 4s
And that to me is like, that is the perfect example of how you are, should be, like, the kind of thing you should be looking to do when you're doing your prep for your setting, right?7m 20s
So we're talking like, again, really big picture here.7m 22s
This is like thinking about your setting, where is it going to be?7m 24s
Is it going to be in a house?7m 25s
Is it going to be in a daycare?7m 26s
Is it a school?7m 27s
Whatever.7m 28s
It's some everyday scenario.7m 29s
But much like you get in games like Mouse Ritter, where the players are playing mice and their sort of objects are these everyday objects that become wondrous and kind of mystical because they're so big, you kind of get to do the same thing here, slightly bigger, I think the toys are slightly bigger than mice, but like you get to play in the same kind of space here.7m 55s
And so I think this is a really great invitation to come up with some really cool actionable environments, some really cool set pieces that let you look at things that are really every day and make them strange and epic and gigantic and wonderful.8m 15s
So a car stops being something that is your scale and becomes a like a truly colossal, unstoppable.
Jords
terrifyingly powerful at your scale.
Rocky
And a, you know, even things as simple as the, like, the baby monitors that they use to eavesdrop on Christmas, right?8m 35s
Like that becomes a whole logistical exercise to get that into place.8m 39s
Yeah, there's a, an invitation there to like really have some fun with your settings and to go and look around and and stick your like phone camera into some spaces and and do some describing of things that are around you.8m 58s
Like, I am 100% sure that that scene happened because someone at Pixar was in their Toy Story headspace and was like getting something from the vending machine and how to look at this, you know, glowing sign at the top and they're like, I wonder what's behind there and stuck a, stuck a camera behind there, had a look around and like turned that into a setting from a movie.9m 17s
Like, I think this is a really good opportunity to set it somewhere that is familiar, right?9m 25s
So your players are gonna have, they're gonna know what you're talking about.9m 28s
It's not it's not like fantasy land where you're going to have to explain what, you know, a dragon's den look looks like.9m 34s
You can say it's the top of a vending machine, but then you get to make it weird and strange, and so what that gives us is a environment that is already familiar to the players, and that means it already comes with affordances, right?
Jords
Hmm.
Rocky
They already know how to use it.9m 49s
They already know that like probably a way out of the vending machine is through the like the slot uh at the bottom, right?9m 58s
They probably already know that they could knock out the power by kicking the plug out of the world, right?10m 4s
Like all of the affordances are already there because they're everyday objects and yet you also get the bonus of making them a little bit like fantastical and strange.
Jords
And like, by the very nature of it, the task of kicking the power cord out is now a mission unto itself, like there's a whole arc in how do we physically pull this plug out when we are small and it is tough.
Rocky
So.10m 22s
Hmm.
Jords
So I think there's a great opportunity here for recontextualisation of the mundane to make it wondrous and challenging and you get to challenge the...
Rocky
Mm.10m 36s
And big, literally epic.
Jords
Yeah, like this is not epic heroics.10m 43s
This is the most mundane heroics made epic by the environment.10m 48s
Like the environment does so much of the storytelling here.
Rocky
Yeah.
Jords
And I think as a GM, you've got to kind of come with this real sense of curiosity and challenge your functional fixedness.11m 1s
Like when you look at a small round thing and you're like, oh yeah, that's a coin or something like that.11m 7s
But to a tiny person, that could be a table.
Rocky
Mm, exactly.
Jords
When you look at the electronics inside the vending machine and you recontextualize like these wires could be ropes, all of these very simple things that you would just take for granted.11m 21s
How could you reuse them if they were small or if you were small and they were big?11m 26s
And they were abundant all of a sudden.
Rocky
Hmm.
Jords
How would you build a tiny society on these things?11m 31s
I think another really good example of this trope, of course, is the borrowers and Arietti, the Miyazaki film.
Rocky
Hmm.
Jords
The whole bliss of those films is just watching these tiny people create marvellous contraptions out of discarded waste.11m 47s
and go on grand scheme so they can acquire a sugar cube. And the way that they bring it back is tricky and hard and fun.
Rocky
Yeah.11m 52s
Yeah.
Jords
Like straight up, doors are so hard when you're tiny because they're designed for someone that's, you know, about 75 centimetres or taller to be able to reach the handle.
Rocky
Yeah.
Jords
Like in dungeon design.12m 10s
The door is often not the plot, and I think a lot of new GMs who get stuck in like a TRAD mindset sometimes treat the door as the activity, but the door is the interface to the activity that happens on the other side of it.12m 24s
That's not the case here.12m 25s
Opening the door is the activity.
Rocky
Yeah.
Jords
It's logistically difficult.
Rocky
The whole elaborate rescue slash escape plot from Toy Story one is to get the front door open, right?12m 39s
There's a, there's a, a, Ocean's 11 style like multi-part heist with multiple moving parts and multiple like bits of the scheme that have to go exactly right just to like ring the doorbell and get someone to open the door so that, so that Woody can get out.12m 56s
I think you're exactly right.12m 57s
I think if you're not looking at, like, yes, not just what interesting, like, affordances can this environment off of it.13m 3s
Also, like what are the challenges if you are only a couple of inches tall?13m 7s
Um, and it is.13m 9s
It's things like doors and cars and crossing the street, right?13m 14s
Like every little mundane activity can become a whole epic challenge and I really love that.
Jords
Especially when you toss in the people aren't allowed to know that you're a toy, that you're sentient, that you're alive.13m 28s
So anytime you're in a public or open space, you got to go limp if somebody sees you.
Rocky
Mm-hmm.13m 32s
Yeah, so the nobody can say you think is fascinating because it sits above whatever mission and interests and plans that toys might have.13m 43s
everyone seems to agree.13m 45s
You are not allowed to be seen by humans.13m 47s
Animals don't seem to count.13m 49s
You're allowed to be seen by the dog, but like the humans can't see you.
Jords
Mm.
Rocky
And I think that's really interesting.13m 54s
I think as a game master.13m 56s
I had a bit of a think about this yesterday.13m 58s
I'm like, where does this fit in?13m 59s
Because the obvious go to is, ah, a human comes in and everyone has to roll a stealth check to hide.14m 6s
But you have to stop and think about how that actually is operationalised in the movie because a check means you can fail and nobody ever fails, right?
Jords
Yeah.
Rocky
Like you cannot fail without check.14m 18s
It is less of a, uh, in in universe.14m 21s
It seems to be less of a like, you should not.14m 24s
It's not a societal law.14m 26s
It's more of a law of physics, like you may not.14m 29s
Like, it is not possible for you to be seen moving by a human.
Jords
That has transgressed like once or twice in there where it's like at the toys are at risk of being discovered and that's so heightened.14m 42s
There is so much tension in that because someone is breaking the rule.
Rocky
Yeah, I think actually, literally only once in the whole franchise.14m 49s
I can only think of that bit at the end where Woody like freaks out Sid and we actually, I don't know that we see it used again in the franchise.15m
I feel like that's something they almost tried to like walk back.
Jords
Mm.
Rocky
So I think where this one comes in, this is like, it is a given that everyone has to drop what they're doing and pretend and play dead, essentially, play plastic when a human comes in.15m 17s
If you look at how this is used in the movies, it's a pacing tool, right?15m 23s
Whatever issue is at hand has to be resolved by the time that person walks in because then everyone drops, right?15m 33s
So it's things like Andy's mum walks in, everyone has to play dead, and then at the end of it, Buzz is gone, right?15m 42s
Like it's, it's things like that.15m 44s
It's your way as a director to force the issue, to result, like force a resolution to whatever's currently being discussed, and it is your way as a game master to do the same thing, right?15m 59s
It is your way to be like,
Jords
Yeah, you can cause the scene to change dramatically.
Rocky
Right.
Jords
Even just like an intense complication.16m 7s
Like if there's some chicanery going on where you're trying to get the door open. And then the door opens.
Rocky
That's three.
Jords
And a person walks in and, you know, maybe it's Andy, he comes in, he wants to play with the toys a little bit and he moves them to new locations while they're in the middle of the plan.16m 24s
So the status quo is greatly changed by how this plays out and now you have to adapt to a new status quo.
Rocky
a forcing tool to make things happen.
Jords
some sort of mechanism to kick the plot along, you might even say.
Rocky
Yeah, you have surmised the point that I was getting to.16m 45s
I think this is your as a game master.16m 47s
This is your go-to kick is like a person is coming.16m 50s
Everyone gets, you know, one action as we go into like freezing and what is it going to be? and that is when you have your dramatic.16m 58s
I kick buzz out the window.16m 59s
I jump into the bag of things that's being donated and no one can stop me because now we're frozen, right?17m 6s
Like, it's that it's that kind of stuff that moves the plot along.17m 10s
And it's also, I think, I think you want to be pretty light on how you do this.17m 13s
Probably only as you're kind of instigating action after your kind of intro scene, but it is your opportunity as the game master to be like, okay, now things are starting.17m 24s
Like, we've done our little kickoff scene, and now the story is beginning, um, and it is your your chance to declare that things have started and and kick them into gear, um, without necessarily having those, those start of game like conversations continue to just roll on, and then it's been 3 hours and you're still, you know, buying potions in the marketplace.
Jords
Mm-hmm.
Rocky
Like, Andy comes in, he picks up Woody, he notices that Woody is broken. Andy's gives it to Andy's mum, he puts Woody on the shelf.17m 52s
They all leave, and Woody's been left behind and like, and now we pick up and everything has changed, right?17m 59s
Like, Woody is now the broken toys on the broken toy shelf with Wheezy. Like, you get to come in as the game master only a few times per game.18m 7s
Only really, I think, and if you look at the movies, it's kind of the same thing.18m 10s
They come in and they instigate and then you get to do that as a DM, you get to come in and instigate and then walk away.18m 19s
everyone unfreezes and they have to deal with the changed situation.
Jords
I really like that as like...
Rocky
I think it's a gift.18m 25s
I think it's, it's tempting to be like, we need a game mechanic for this, but I'm like, no, this is, this is a game mastering tool.
Jords
just happens.
Rocky
You don't need any, exactly.
Jords
Yep.
Rocky
You need no mechanics for it at all.18m 36s
You just say everyone like freeze in the middle of what you're doing right now.
Jords
I would prep music for when the adults walk in the room when people walk in the room.18m 45s
And that's my, like, hard.18m 48s
The world is different because you can't act now.18m 50s
It's like red light, green light kind of a vibe.
Rocky
And you could whip around the table and say like, and how are you sort of frozen, but it is your like, your gift as a game master to like kick the game into gear.19m 2s
And I think it's, I think it's actually kind of brilliant.
Jords
All right, so we got this omnipotent being that can walk in the room and shut everything down and dramatically cause plot to occur.19m 14s
And we've set up this world of small people with big objects that they have to navigate.19m 22s
Talk to me about a prison break.19m 24s
Now, elements of a prison break in my mind, they often revolve around meticulous planning.
Rocky
Digging a tunnel with spoons.
Jords
Yep, digging tunnel with spoons is absolutely the prime trope there.19m 36s
Perhaps a nice poster on the wall to cover those efforts.19m 39s
But yeah, they're they're like clockwork apparatus when the plan goes off It's like you have to be here at this time because this patrol will go past so that then you can manipulate that to trigger this event so that this door is open at this time to slide through.19m 56s
Like, it's very much space and time bounded plans for everything.20m
But that's a lot of work to prep.
Rocky
Hmm.
Jords
What are bits that we have to draw in?
Rocky
Exactly.20m 7s
I think you can kind of join the dots from the other 2 to this one, right?20m 11s
You've got these small people in a world that is not designed for them, that is in many ways prohibitive, like doors are a huge challenge.20m 18s
Roads are a huge challenge Any environment is difficult to traverse, right?20m 24s
which makes escaping or moving anywhere, but in particular escaping, it makes escaping a challenge.20m 30s
And then you have omnipotent beings that can literally pick you up and put you in a new context and put you in an environment that you can't get out of.20m 41s
Uh, and so I think, It it kind of is.
Jords
Sounds very Lovecraft.20m 47s
Is Toy Story a horror?
Rocky
Like, there are definitely some aspects to it that you don't want to think too much about because they're pretty, and they like, they, they, exactly.
Jords
Surface reads only.
Rocky
They edge like dangerously close to them in.21m 1s
I've deliberately avoided talking about Toy Story 4 because I didn't really enjoy it.21m 6s
Um, but they're like,
Jords
And Toy Story 3 was just such a perfect conclusion.
Rocky
Yeah, but even, so Toy Story, Toy Story 3 raises the like horrifying if you think about it, like what happens to all the toys who end up in landfill?21m 20s
Are they just like burned alive?
Jords
Trapped. And then, yeah, trapped under the masses and eventually.
Rocky
Right?21m 27s
Like, do toys feel pain?
Jords
Cool.21m 29s
That's innocence lost.
Rocky
Can they feel pain?21m 32s
We don't know.21m 33s
That's never explained in the movie.
Jords
Yeah, but there are fates worse than death.
Rocky
Exactly.21m 38s
If you take a toy apart, like do it, because we know that Mr. Potato Head's constituent components continue to function, is that a property of his unique biology?
Jords
Oh, man, that's messed up for Sid then, because he's effectively pulled pieces of toys apart and stuck them back together another bit.
Rocky
Right?
Jords
So, you know, like that baby's head on the spider's legs.21m 59s
Are those 2 things operating independently?
Rocky
Right?22m 2s
Like, what if the ship of Theseus, what if the boards were sentient?
Jords
Ooh, we should write a Delta green shotgun scenario about this.
Rocky
Like it's.22m 9s
Yeah, this is, this is now a horror game, and like, I would absolutely play that.22m 16s
But then the Toy Story 4 like aspect of it as well, which is like, oh, as soon as you put eyes on a spork and play with it, it is declared a toy and thus becomes sentient.22m 27s
And that is like, again, I think they're skating... skating dangerously close to like explaining the magic of their own world. And I think that's one of the reasons that that movie doesn't really work because it tries to play too much with explaining the magic. It's like, no, don't, we just have to accept that toys are alive.
Jords
Yeah, you have birthed consciousness into it.22m 35s
Hmm.22m 44s
That conceit has to be taken.
Rocky
Exactly.22m 47s
We have to just accept that toys are alive and if we dig into the why's and the how's of it, like, you just got to, like, no, close that box back, back up.
Jords
Yeah, as soon as we start flirting with that idea, you start to like extrapolate.23m 2s
So factories are literally birthing consciousness and mass.23m 6s
Like, where the toys are made in China.23m 9s
They are just producing sentient entities like nobody's business.
Rocky
Yeah.
Jords
What's the natural endgame of that?23m 15s
Slave labour?23m 17s
We redesign the world so we can get all these tiny workers to do all the...
Rocky
But also like mechanically, you know, as soon as you're like, oh, anything that looks that he's like made and then played with, say, is alive, it's like, okay, well, suddenly you're opening up the windows for your players to assemble something that looks like a toy, leave it out for a kid to play with, and then Bing it comes to life, like,
Jords
Straight up, just a packet of googly eyes is the perfect solvable for every problem.
Rocky
Exactly.23m 46s
And it's like, okay, well, now we're just walking around like animating everything and that's not also not what this story is about.23m 52s
So it's like you can't.
Jords
No, that's Fantasia.23m 53s
That's a different story
Rocky
So yeah, I think a prison break flows really naturally from, you have an environment that is difficult to navigate and you have beings who can put you in those environments.24m 5s
And it is just such a simple setup to say, hey, you have been lost.24m 14s
You have been donated.24m 17s
You have been stolen by the kid next door.24m 19s
You have been bought by a collector.24m 21s
you like,
Jords
You are away from your home place.
Rocky
It's literally, yes, it's like, what are the places that are not like home and safe and it's so easy to put the toys into those spaces because kids like to take their toys out in the world?24m 36s
And it's a great opportunity to retraumatize your players.24m 40s
Like what happens if you are, you go around the time and you're like, okay, who lost a toy?24m 46s
What was the most traumatic time you lost a toy?24m 48s
It's like, oh, I left my favourite thing on a, on a man, there's, there's 2 that come to mind and one of them is much more horrifying.24m 56s
We're gonna like go deep into my psyche now.24m 58s
Um, one of them was that I left my stuffed rabbit on top of the heater.25m 3s
and it came back full 2 face with a like one half like charred black, um, and I'm like great.
Jords
Look, I was going to save this for later, but a lot of the games that do play in this space often take a horror bent on being the small thing in the big world.
Rocky
Mm.
Jords
And I think that's, you've just hit on the reason why game designers in their 30s are like resolving the childhood trauma of loss and being like, why did the world steal my innocence by melting only half of my rabbit's face and letting me see?
Rocky
Yep.25m 40s
Yeah, I don't remember how we solved that.25m 43s
But the other one is I left the same rabbit on a plane.25m 46s
And I think after it, so maybe we fixed it.25m 49s
I don't know.25m 50s
We left the rabbit, we must have we must have patched it up somehow.25m 53s
I left the rabbit on the plane and they were like, oh, okay, because my parents were clued in that this was the favourite toy.26m 1s
They had a spare of the same toy.26m 3s
And so they just, they were like, hey, look, your rabbit's gone, but we've got, and it was a different colour, but I didn't care because I was a little kid.26m 10s
They were like, your rabbit's gone, but like, we've got your rabbit's friend, and it's gonna, this, this one's gonna look after you.
Jords
So from that toy's perspective, it's prison break is trying to get back onto a plane, back to your place, figure out some sort of navigation to your house, and then sneak back into your room.
Rocky
But then when they get there, they've been replaced by another one of the same toy.26m 33s
Like, oh, it's just like Chef Kiss.26m 35s
And this is literally just like a normal thing that happened to me as a child.
Jords
Oh.
Rocky
Like, I lost a toy and my parents replaced it with the same toy, but, like, that could be a toy story movie.26m 45s
And I think you would be mad not to dig into, because again, that's the other half of this, right?
Jords
heavy themes in this.
Rocky
is that like, everybody has these experiences and so you can start to like, dig into them as fuel for the plot, fuel for the like, the structure of the story because it is, it is always a homecoming through a difficult environment.27m 7s
Um, and sometimes you have like other toys trying to rescue you, sometimes you have other toys trying to oppose you, so you've got some like, some little, little teamworky factiony things at play at play there.27m 17s
But yeah, it is essentially a like breakout of one place breakback into another place and like deal with what that.27m 29s
So speaking of speaking of tugging at heartstrings and unresolved childhood trauma and harvesting players, experiences and that like familiar nostalgia, right, for for, um, you know, the good stuff at the table, for table content.27m 46s
Um, you said you were thinking about this much more from a, uh, I guess heart and soul kind of view.27m 54s
Like it's all about change and coming to terms with.
Jords
The characterisation of the toys, I think, is incredibly important.
Rocky
Yeah.
Jords
Like, 1st of all, one of the prime takeaways from these movies is that diversity is strength, because always the like clever plans that they come up with leverage all the individual capabilities of the very different toys.
Rocky
Mm.
Jords
So I think there is a strong tie between like the physical presentation of the toy and their personality and the thing that drives them.
Rocky
Mm.28m 25s
Yeah, I mean, they're literally features, right?28m 27s
Like the Mr. Potato Head has like, he has got storage space in him and he can change his appearance and like, Buzz has all of his like wings and lasers and stuff.
Jords
Yep.28m 37s
That physical representation of them becomes the personality that makes them who they are.
Rocky
Hmm.
Jords
And I think the 2 are inseparable.28m 47s
So I think there's a really strong element of what is my toy.28m 52s
What cool toy things can they do, and then how would they behave because they have those toy things?
Rocky
Hmm.
Jords
It's like Buzz always presents as the elite commando, because he has cool elite commando bits on him, and Woody always presents as the leader, because he's the cowboy with the Spurs, and he's got some cool sayings, and he's everybody's friend because of that.
Rocky
Mm-hmm.
Jords
And, you know, slinky dog is just really fun and cool and always kind of looks a little bit high.
Rocky
Hmm.29m 23s
Well, no, Link is interesting because he's got, he's loyal, like the dog, but he's also literally, but, I guess, also metaphorically flexible.29m 34s
Like, but then also, it's really useful, it turns out to have a player who can just stretch or a character can just stretch.29m 42s
And so he.
Jords
That character is the rope.
Rocky
Exactly.29m 46s
And so he becomes like, and they use that all the time they are not.29m 49s
It's not like a James Bond situation where there's, you know, each gadget gets used only once.29m 53s
Like they use slink stretch all the time, they use it to get down, things, they use it to get up things.
Jords
Mm-hmm.
Rocky
They're like, the limits of how far you can stretch behind the moving van are is a whole, like, a whole moment, like, they take that one feature and they absolutely like get to play with it, which is not a thing that you always get in RPGs.
Jords
Milk it.
Rocky
You't always get to use your gimmick, but I think because the environment is so hostile, you are like, you also get to have some affordances that are like yourself and that are like always on and always available and and I think it's a genre or a franchise that really encourages you to.
Jords
Yeah.30m 33s
Absolutely.30m 34s
I think there's a strong tendency to recontextualize your cool ability given a new situation.
Rocky
Hmm.
Jords
So it almost plays a bit like, in a lot of shown in anime,30m 46s
There's often like main character who might not be as strong or as powerful as somebody else, but they're just really clever with the one trick pony that they are, and it allows them to be extremely adaptable.
Rocky
Mm.
Jords
And I think that's what our toys are here.31m
They might not have a huge feature set, but the way that they can use it is so versatile and makes for interesting plot beats to occur.
Rocky
Hmm.31m 8s
And I just, I can't think of any that I wouldn't enjoy seeing.31m 12s
I'm like, even the, you know, the etcher sketch, right?31m 15s
I'm like, what a, the way etch is used in the shows is, is that they're a quick draw.31m 22s
They are really good at like visualising things at capturing information.31m 27s
If they need to capture like what's on the TV, the map for the map to the toy barn that's on the TV, it's like etch, go.
Jords
Mm-hmm.
Rocky
And I'm like, you know what?31m 33s
absolutely a player who can like see something and immediately memorise it and sketch it out visually for the other players to refer to, so good as a like gimmick for your character, also presents such a fun weakness where like as soon as they get shaken, the information is gone.31m 49s
Like, it sounds like a dumb toy to be, but you could make it work and have so much fun with it, I think.31m 54s
Having someone play it.
Jords
That weakness element, I think, is also pretty funny because all of your toys, you can imagine the way that they break really easily.
Rocky
Mm.
Jords
It's like Slinky gets tangled.32m 7s
I challenge anyone out there who has ever held a slinky to not know what it feels like when that bastard gets tangled.
Rocky
Oh boy, does it?
Jords
Great fail states that are unique to each character, each toy, but then also that personal driving element, that makes them stick around and work together as a team to achieve something.32m 27s
It's like a personal ethos for each of the characters that is tested in each film.32m 33s
Everyone has their element that is pushed to its limit so that they can then grow as a character.
Rocky
Mm.
Jords
I would want that to be, I think, a strong mechanical component of the game so that it ties so tightly to the fiction.
Rocky
Mm-hmm.32m 48s
Oh, absolutely.32m 49s
And it's like everyone, and this is, I think, when we get to like the Pixar of it all, right?32m 55s
because it has been, the stuff we've talked about so far has been like a little bit mechanical, a little bit gamey, but that, like, this is the meat of why people love these movies, and I think if you don't have it, you are just playing toy soldiers.33m 7s
Like it is change.33m 9s
You were right, it is like coming to terms with the, you know, the status quo that has changed.33m 15s
It is coming to terms with your, like, changes in your identity and your purpose, like what is the purpose of a toy, what is the purpose of a favourite toy?33m 24s
Is it to always be there or is it to move on and be someone else's favourite?33m 28s
Like, what does it mean to be around forever?33m 32s
Does it mean being loved and played with until you break or does it mean being preserved and enjoyed from afar?33m 39s
Like, these are not, these are not small questions and not only do they drive a lot of like, I guess, the internal change within the plays, they're also a source of conflict, right?
Jords
Mm-hmm.
Rocky
Like that, that conflict between like, Woody, your, your place is with Andy, your job is to like be there for Andy, whether or not he needs you right now versus your job is to like, you are a historical artefact and you can be loved by 1000000s for generations.34m 9s
Like, neither of those is wrong, and that is the thing that drives the plot of Toy Story 2.
Jords
Mm-hmm.
Rocky
They're not, they're not wrong.34m 18s
Woody picks aside, but like neither is necessarily invalid.
Jords
Yeah, the thing that is wrong in there is when the choice is made for you, when you are forced into it.
Rocky
on the face of it.34m 28s
Exactly.
Jords
Yeah, when you, like, loss of agency is the villain.
Rocky
Yeah, and like the way, the way that you behave in, in attaining those goals, but it's not necessarily wrong to want to be in a museum, for example, or in a daycare, for example, like we see, and we see how that looks.34m 47s
I think, I think Toy Story 3 does a really good job at, like, not invalidating that, that conflicted path when we see the daycare in the, the after times.34m 57s
It's like, well, Buddy and the team have decided that it's not for them, but we also see the situation at the daycare change and it's like, and it's no longer run like a prison, it is run as like a cooperative, kind of everyone taps out, everyone makes sure that they get cared for each other and like to be loved by many kids rather than just one is like also a valid pathway and we get to see that actually played out, which you don't see.
Jords
Mm-hmm.
Rocky
Yeah, I think that's also what drives, it's not just what drives our characters and makes our characters interesting.35m 30s
as also what drives...35m 32s
This like, what is, what does it mean to be who are?
Jords
Who I are.
Rocky
What is my purpose?35m 42s
What does it mean to have purpose?
Jords
Pass butter.
Rocky
They're deep questions?
Jords
Oh, that's that's a harder, less memeable question.35m 52s
Right, so we've got small people, big world.35m 56s
Recontextualisation of everyday things as obstacles or challenges or affordances.36m 4s
We've got a situation that requires overcoming a bunch of these obstacles are our prison break style to get home, probably, and we've got that ties really nicely to the last one, challenges to the personal identities of the toys so that their understanding of what is right and what is true is challenged and maybe changed.36m 28s
Like we have a reckoning for them to come to terms with.
Rocky
Oh, absolutely.
Jords
Is that Toy Story?
Rocky
I mean, Toy Story is so many things, but I think those are the bits that are in.
Jords
It's also got the strong aesthetic elements to it as well.
Rocky
Yeah, actually, before we dive into our game system, I do just want to put in one last little like, as I often do at the end here, like, and here's the, like, little like, thing about props or music or or table setting or lighting.36m 58s
Um, absolutely get some toys out.37m
Like you'd be, I think you'd be so dumb not to.37m 4s
I think you'd be so dumb not to be like, everyone bring a toy.37m 7s
we're gonna do a Toy Story game like bring who you're gonna play. and maybe that's one of their own from their childhood.37m 13s
Maybe that's one of their own, or like they go to a, an op shop or something and pick up a, like something that looks interesting.37m 19s
But I think you'd be...
Jords
That might be cooler than the thing that I was going to suggest, yeah.37m 23s
Having the physical presence of the toy on the table.37m 26s
Just imagining the bit where somebody's got Buzz Lightyear pressing his little arm laser and pew, pew, pew. Yeah.
Rocky
Right?37m 32s
And like, what a cool chance to like actually play with toys as part of the game.37m 39s
And look, if you wanted to go real hard on it, I think.37m 43s
You can't follow this too far to its natural conclusion because it becomes a, it becomes a lap where you're like hiding buzz on top of the bookshelf, like in your house and you're just running around like idiots, and that could be its own kind of fun, but I don't think it's necessarily what we're trying to do here.38m
But like absolutely bring toys to the table.38m 1s
What was your thing?
Jords
So I was going to suggest when we're creating those characters that maybe it is the, you take the element of what toy was broken or like what, when was your heart broken because your toy was?38m 16s
You know, or lost or something like that?
Rocky
Mm.
Jords
In which case they wouldn't be present at the table, but you have that really tight person or connection and you can very much draw on your own childhood trauma of how that made you feel and what your characterisation of the toy was, along with whatever abilities it has.
Rocky
Like, I think this is why the movies work, because it's the world is so accessible, that the setting is so accessible, but also that the characters and the stories are so accessible, and I think you'd be, again, you'd be mad not to use that as a game master.38m 51s
Everyone is familiar with the inside of a house and everyone is familiar with.
Jords
Slow down, egghead.
Rocky
And everyone, unlike household objects, and everyone is also familiar with like what it means to have a toy that you like, but then lose or your relationship to that thing changes, right?39m 10s
Like everyone knows how it, because we are presumably playing this game as adults and no longer are playing with toys in the same way.39m 16s
Like, we all have that sense of what it is to have your relationship with toys change.39m 23s
That is a super accessible thing that you can draw on.39m 27s
And yeah, I think.
Jords
And just for all the Warhammer fans out there, the relationship between the toys being something that you buy once and you fool around with in many different ways versus meticulously paint and put on the shelf and then they come down for special occasions to do wards.39m 47s
Like there's a pretty cool identity in those little guys as well.
Rocky
Right?39m 50s
Like, I actually, I would actually be like, heck, yes, bring your, because you, you know the little like green army dudes in, in the movie, right?
Jords
Yeah.
Rocky
Like, I imagine it would be a similar kind of, and maybe you're playing a squad of them.
Jords
It, except they, they are now a, like, quite strong, uh, pretty fascist military parade looking group of dudes behind the glass cabinet.
Rocky
weirdly uptight because they're not used to actually being played with in the real world. like,
Jords
Yeah, they're not that kind of toy.
Rocky
Yeah.40m 23s
Um, and I like that.40m 24s
I don't understand how to be played with if there's no, you know, rules and dice.
Jords
I just imagine one of them like taking a hit and they're paint chipping and everyone treating it as a mortal wound.
Rocky
Yeah, right?40m 38s
Like they get at like a field 1st aid kit and it's, it's, you take out a field 1st aid kit and it's all just like citadel paints.
Jords
You're no longer battle ready.40m 45s
Speed paints.
Rocky
And all the other toys are like, you're fine.40m 52s
You're not broken at all.40m 53s
It's like, no, he's not table legal if he's not fully painted.40m 57s
You can't participate.41m 2s
Oh man.41m 3s
I want that, I want the Toy Story at Andy's College where he's like, his 40 K miniatures also come to life.
Jords
Oh.41m 9s
Just doing war in the background to each other all the time.
Rocky
Oh, incredible.
Jords
Yeah, strong element of identity, a drive in those toys.41m 21s
So yeah, I think I would definitely start this one, I think, from the characters outwards.41m 28s
Like, we know we've got a bunch of elements that are really easy to improv on the fly, like the layout of the house and the obstacles like doors and windows and literally just height.
Rocky
Hmm.
Jords
The concept of height is a really big player.
Rocky
I think that would reward some scouting by you as the game master 1st.
Jords
Oh, yes, I think having that awareness, but like not necessarily prepping anything, just so much as familiarisation with that world, in the same way that you might like watch a movie, but not necessarily prep a structure from a movie.
Rocky
Yeah, and in a thing that I've just thought of, maybe some like, if you're getting your phone out to, you know, stick it down low on the floor, some like, it's a really easy one to make assets for, like, you just stick your phone at toy height, tilt it upwards, and you have all of the, like, examples that you need of, like, how things look like.42m 23s
You come across a towering, you know, monolith and it's a bookshelf and it's your bookshelf and you've just taken like a really low angle shot of it, right?
Jords
Mm.
Rocky
Like it's actually a super easy one to prep some visual prompts for if you just walk around your house and take...42m 38s
You don't have to use all of them.42m 39s
That doesn't mean you have to assign each one a scene or something that happens there, but if they do happen to try to escape out the window.42m 47s
It's like, I actually took a photo of a window from a toys POV.42m 51s
Like, you can bring that up and it's really easy to add some visual elements to the story without having to be, you know, an incredible artist who can draw fantasy scenes.
Jords
Mm-hmm.
Rocky
But I guess the flip side of that is like super easy to do, if you're just doing one around a house, it's actually super easy research to do, you know, on the fly.
Jords
Back to characters.43m 11s
I would want my players to be building their characters with that strong identity element, a singular drive statement that says, this is why I do what I do, and what my like ideal home place would be, how I like the status quo, and it might not be that you're the favourite, but it is that you're loved by all the other toys.
Rocky
Hmm.
Jords
It might be that everyone in the household plays with you at some point.43m 36s
It might be that you're bonded tightly to one person in particular.
Rocky
Hmm.
Jords
that gives cause to be challenged at some point.43m 45s
And then I would start looking at those structural things of obstacles, which we've already covered a bunch, doors, windows, height, family pets, the outside.43m 57s
I really like birds, like I really want to have, if somebody goes out into an open space.
Rocky
Hmm.
Jords
I want a thread of birds swooping them to be one, and I live in a neighbourhood that has several different gangs of magpies and I just imagine them curiously.
Rocky
Yeah.44m 11s
I was gonna say, you get, you're, you are too, you are shiny and you will be added to a bower.
Jords
Or, like, the full-on eagle comes down, like a wedge tail comes down, is like, food, and then takes you back to a nest and is like, you're not food, but there are lots of little babies here that want to eat you now.44m 28s
So yeah, having a couple of those in the back pocket and like an inciting incident.
Rocky
Hmm.
Jords
Like what's the big thing that's going to upset the status quo here?44m 38s
Is that child gets old?
Rocky
Well, yes, but also that's where your, I think, is your, like, actual, like, instantaneous sort of moment of change, I think that's really where your humans come into the room everyone has to freeze comes in as a way to kick things up.44m 54s
So yeah, I think as a...
Jords
I would want to have an opening scene before that happens just to establish.44m 59s
This is the you meet in a tavern, but it's Toy World.
Rocky
Yeah, and you get that in the movies as well, and that's when we actually get to, at least at the start of Toy Story 2, we get to see into the like fantasy world that Andy is constructing.45m 13s
I think one of those as an opener is actually great, great fun because it doesn't need to make sense.45m 18s
It doesn't need to be anything other than just like narrating what happens.
Jords
You just get to play with the toys in your toy box.
Rocky
You just, I know and it's like, this is, is that what we're doing?45m 28s
Is that all we've invented as a way to play with toys and have a be part of our RPG note?
Jords
Yes.45m 32s
And it's okay.45m 35s
Well, I love how we use that euphemism in so many other contexts, and this time it's extremely literal.
Rocky
Literally go play with your toys.
Jords
Yep.45m 46s
This works especially well if the players have brought toys to the table and then you just get to play a scene while they watch.45m 54s
That'd be so weird and fun.
Rocky
Yeah, we're just doing the intro scene and it's just like free form kind of narrators.46m 2s
you're literally just, you're playing with the toys.46m 4s
You're playing make-believe with the toys.
Jords
And then, inciting event occurs, dramatic status quo change.
Rocky
Yep, which, yeah.46m 12s
Which I think is canonically becoming the toys becoming separated from whatever their concept of hope.
Jords
And the...46m 21s
Yep.46m 21s
Yeah, I've been removed for a reason.46m 24s
And then the rest of the game is overcoming obstacles on the way back, and I think I would have a couple of fun set piece obstacles.46m 33s
And I don't know that I'd necessarily worry about prepping the transitions.46m 39s
I think I would play with the contextualisation in the moment.46m 43s
I would improv that.46m 44s
I've already done the hard work of pulling out like car is very scary.
Rocky
Yeah.
Jords
Like a bus is scary if you have to travel overland that's scary.46m 53s
Now it's just a matter of like, where do the players want to take it? And then just...
Rocky
Yeah.46m 59s
So yeah, I think I think prep wise it is super easy.47m 1s
I think it's you prep and inciting incident, you prep some, like, interesting and.47m 7s
Plop the characters far from home and let them make their way back.
Jords
In terms of the prison break element, I was thinking before, like prison breaks, for me, conjure blueprints on the wall, people sitting around in the dark trying to discuss the plan, mapping and timing, like guard routes and like very detail heavy things.
Rocky
Yeah, they're almost heists, but with the thing that you're heisting being yourself.
Jords
Yeah, you're heisting with no resources, but cleverness and time.47m 41s
Like really primitive tools.
Rocky
Hmm.
Jords
I think the primitive tools aspect works well for our toys, like their biggest tool is their toy set features.47m 50s
But I'm not going to be prepping meticulous guard routes and watchtower sight lines and floor plans and blueprints.
Rocky
Yeah.
Jords
That bit's not so fun for me to do, especially when I know that the players might just avoid that entire section of prep.48m 10s
So in that case, I would recontextualize that as like, what are the fun beats of a prison break and then we throw them out at the time?48m 19s
So if we set up an environment.
Rocky
Hmm.
Jords
So the adult has come in and throw in everyone into the bag and they're taking them to be donated to charity. And that's our insiding event.48m 31s
What can I recontextualize as a guard tower?48m 34s
What can I have as the, like, the guard walking pass, which I think is incredibly fun when it's just a person and you have to become an inanimate object as soon as they spot you.48m 43s
That's way more interesting than in a, like, 5 E style heist where it's like, you roll stealth.48m 49s
Oh no, you miss.48m 50s
Oh, the alarm's gone up and now it's a big pylon as the guards come pouring in.48m 54s
Now, in this case, if you're at risk of being spotted, you literally turn inanimate, you get captured.
Rocky
Yeah, you get picked up and put put away.
Jords
Put somewhere else.49m 2s
Yeah, and the scene changes.49m 5s
And because that scene has changed.49m 7s
Some of that prep, if I was meticulous about it, would no longer apply very well.49m 11s
I want to have to redo that on the fly.
Rocky
Mm.
Jords
So yeah, recontextualising, it's just like, these are the story beats of a prison break, and I know which one to deploy based on what's happening in this fiction right now.
Rocky
So,
Jords
I think we are.49m 28s
I think we've got the elements.49m 29s
We got toys that have a strong identity and a feature set.49m 32s
We've maybe got them physically present at the table.49m 35s
We've got a couple of lists of obstacles that they might face from toy perspective and affordances that we can pull out based on the change in function when things are small.49m 48s
We've got, like, an inciting event and a couple of kicks that we've prepped of when adults will walk into the room or, sorry, people will walk into the room and your toys naturally lose the ability to act.50m 2s
And we've got a couple of prison break, story beats, like being chased by the guards, like escaping through a patrol, like overcoming physical obstacles in your way, that can be tied to whatever the scene is that we're currently in.50m 16s
I don't think we need anything more.
Rocky
Mm-hmm.50m 19s
No, but there are some tools that I think I want as a game master, mechanics wise, that whatever system we do this in, there's some things that I want to be able to have at my disposal, um, or to have my players have at their disposal, um, because having rules for how to do things makes them easier to do.50m 39s
So should we talk a little bit about what we would run these?
Jords
Absolutely.50m 44s
You sound like you've got something front of mind right now.
Rocky
I do, and it's what you would expect.
Jords
Uh, wait, can I say mine 1st then, just in case?
Rocky
Okay, yeah.
Jords
It's fate.
Rocky
Yes.50m 57s
Wait, is that yours or is that you guessing mine?
Jords
No, that's mine.51m 1s
I sat down for a while thinking about how to mechanise these wildly different toys. And I was like, it's got to be some sort of a universal mechanism where you can pull these traits of, but I'm very flexible or I can be long or short or I've always got the right thing to say when you pull the back of me to inspire the group.51m 22s
The spectrum of what toys and features they can have is so broad that to model that with an overly mechanised system.51m 29s
I think would take away some of the math.
Rocky
Yeah, so I'd go one step further on, I'd say, specifically fate accelerated.51m 35s
So fate actually has a very classic list of like skills.51m 41s
Like they're things like athletics and burglary and like drive a vehicle and, you know, shoot.51m 48s
And I think that's not granular, or that's too granular, sorry, for what we're kind of talking about.
Jords
Mm.
Rocky
So I would go with fate accelerated, which replaces the skill list with what they call approaches, right?52m 3s
So rather than doing having like burglary and, you know, athletics, you've got how you approach the problem, which is careful, clever, flashy, forceful, quick, or sneaky, which I love because it also, like, much more, I think, than saying, oh, well, this character has a high stealth skill.52m 22s
What does that tell you about them?52m 23s
Well, we can kind of figure out what52m 27s
This actually gives you something much more chunky to role play, which is like, how am I approaching this problem?52m 33s
How do I like to approach problems? And the system kind of encourages you to approach things in the way that is best for your character because you've got that really good Ludo narrative resonance where like what is most in character for you is also what you are mechanically best at.52m 53s
So it's like, if you are a very careful character, you are going to do best if you take a careful approach if you get to roll careful and set things up so that you get to roll your careful.53m 3s
So I think fate accelerated is the way to go, because again, the skills are too diverse.53m 8s
It doesn't make any sense to be talking about Woody's athletics versus like a buzzers shoot, like nonsensical.53m 14s
But we can talk about like Woody's careful over buzzers, you know, flashy, right?53m 22s
Like that, that makes much more sense as a way to talk about these characters.53m 27s
There's a couple of other tools in the fake toolbox that I really like.53m 31s
So I think aspects, so the way fate has you create.53m 38s
encourages you to create relationships with other characters.53m 42s
So some of your aspects will be about your relationship with another character at the table.53m 49s
So you have your kind of core identity and then you have a, um, usually some kind of flaw and then you will have like relationships with with the people to either side of you.53m 59s
And I think that's a really cool way to start to have relationships in the game.54m 5s
So you have, for example, Woody and Buzz have a very strong rival relationship, which is perfect.
Jords
Mm-hmm.
Rocky
That becomes a mechanical thing that you can compel as the game master, but there's also rules as part of the game for changing aspects, as you, I think, and I'd have to go back and check how it works in accelerated, but it's as part of the, like, levelling up process, you can add an aspect or change an existence.54m 35s
grow as a character.54m 36s
So you have these rules for like changing those relationships and changing your core like identity sense of purpose as part of the game system, which I love.
Jords
Yeah, I think all of that ties super tightly to the sort of things that I would want to be preparing anyway, and like you said, coming up with those aspects is quite easy to do and mechanically robust.
Rocky
Hmm.
Jords
I do really like the flexibility of an approach over a skill list.
Rocky
Yeah, the other thing I really like is, so you have your your approaches, which is kind of your over the shape of your character.55m 13s
You've got your aspects, which is more specific.55m 15s
I'm this kind of toy.55m 17s
have these kinds of relationships.55m 18s
Then you have your stunts.55m 19s
So stunts are a little bit less like, um, skills that you roll and a little bit more like, quote unquote, powers that you have, but they're very free form in how you design them.
Jords
Mm-hmm.
Rocky
So stunts are great.55m 33s
Stunts are a really good fit for that, like, toy features space where it's like, it's something quite mechanically specific that's maybe only situationally applicable, um, and that you're going to try to activate as much as you can through the game because you only, you only have one, maybe 2 of them.55m 49s
Look, without going through the whole, because we could talk about, I could talk about fate all day.55m 55s
But I think the last thing that's a really good fit is consequences.55m 59s
It's one of those games where you take stress and then when your stress builds up too high, you take a consequence.
Jords
Mm-hmm.56m 6s
This is starkly different to something like a mouse ridder, right?56m 11s
Where death is on the cards.56m 13s
If your mouse gets hurt.
Rocky
Mm, absolutely.
Jords
They die, and that's not something that's really reflected in a toy story, space.
Rocky
Yeah.56m 23s
No, you you might be changed, you might, you know, be impaired in some way, but you're not gonna die.
Jords
Die.56m 32s
Yeah, I think that's really important.56m 34s
I think the the nature of consequence here is that like your identity might change, your physical appearance might change, you might become battered or worn, or one of your features might break, but you're never just straight up removed.56m 48s
There's no element of going down.56m 51s
There's no element of being destroyed and I don't think that should be reflected in the rule set that we choose to play this out.56m 58s
Just like you were saying before about a stealth check implies the possibility that you can fail and be caught, but that doesn't reflect this game.57m 6s
death doesn't reflect this game.57m 8s
Now, I did have one other suggestion, that takes a bit more work, I think, but it's got some of those elements that I think would really help model out this fiction, and that's a Medifius 2D20 style game, of which I don't think there is one that maps to it.
Rocky
I feel like you've talked about this on the show before, but I'm still not super...
Jords
I have before.57m 32s
This is the one that Dune is based on, um, June, uh, Conan, the Medifius version of it, which I think they've lost the license to now, so you probably won't see any more of that.57m 42s
And Star Trek, if I remember correctly.57m 45s
In this one, there are a lot of different levers that the GM can pull for a where when they call for a role about setting like the number of successes that are required, what the threshold for success is, and you're always rolling at least 2 D20, and you can roll more depending on what traits your character has or elements from the environment you can invoke.58m 9s
But one of the key aspects here is that your characters have really strong personal drives, and if you act against that drive, you do have, like there is a mechanised way that causes you to rethink that and reshapes who your character is.58m 28s
And I think that strong identity element comes through here where you say like, I would go against my identity to help my friend in this scene or to overcome this challenge, but who I am changes because of that.58m 42s
I had demonstrated in fiction that I'm not the person I thought I was anymore.58m 47s
And it also has another fun element called momentum, where if you succeed over and above the target that you were trying to achieve.58m 56s
You bank those successes as a group, and you can call on them later.59m 2s
So for the next role, you get to do more.59m 4s
And I think this works quite well in the prison breaky aspect, where typically, in a prison break scene, you'll overcome an obstacle, the next one, the next one, the next one, until it all comes crashing down, and that's that bit where you've run out of momentum.59m 17s
And this is kind of similar, in fate, in that these things are exchanged as metacurrencies.
Rocky
Mm-hmm.
Jords
full to the brim of metacurrency.59m 26s
So if you don't like it, you probably won't vibe with it, but you do exchange these metacurrencies with the GM who can pull them up to complicate scenes and add more.59m 36s
But it would require quite a lot of reflavoring to do it.59m 39s
I don't think it's too tricky to pull off, but I think you'd have to do quite a bit of legwork at the front end to make this thing.
Rocky
Yeah.59m 46s
Uh, so that's tweaked some thoughts.59m 49s
I have I have 2 ones that I want to just ask you about real briefly.59m 52s
The 1st one is, how would you feel about doing it in something powered by the apocalypse?59m 57s
Because I know the shifting towards one ideal or the other really reminded me of Avatar.
Jords
I thought the same thing as well.1h 4s
I might just be a bit naive here.1h 6s
I don't know of one off the top of my head that's already written for this.1h 9s
I've seen a couple that play in the, like, toys but spooky and toys but horror sense that we chatted about earlier, but I feel confident that something probably exists in there and I think it would also be a very good fit.1h 22s
I think the paradigm of PBTA would fit this story quite well and also typically helps with a low prep start.
Rocky
I think probably what you lose is that PBTA does tend to be based on like, I guess, pre-existing classes, a lot of the...
Jords
Yeah, archetypes.
Rocky
It's not quite as easy to like write your character sheet at the table unless you had a system that was kind of set up.
Jords
Yeah, I think that one very much depends on the implementation of the PBTA principles where some are more closed than others.
Rocky
I think if you are trying to do a product, like design a product, design a game and not plan a session, I think PBTA would be the go.1h 1m 5s
I think you'd sit down and write a really good PBTA Toy Story game, but unless that already exists, it's a lot of work just to play one session when fate...
Jords
And I think there's quite a lot of depth to the design of the moves.1h 1m 19s
So if you're not already familiar with those principles and where to draw the line between like GM authority and yeah, shared player authority.
Rocky
Yep.
Jords
I think people might not appreciate just how clever some PBTA designers are in the way that they sketch out their moves.
Rocky
Like, I would happily run a PBTA Toy Story game.1h 1m 41s
I am I will freely admit I am not up to designing one like I don't have the chops.1h 1m 45s
My other, like, quick fire question to put to you, um, is we talked a little bit about, you know, heisting and elaborate plans, uh, thoughts on a forged in the dark.
Jords
Look, you know that I'm a stand for this, but I just think there are too many elements that you would have to cut or change.1h 2m 5s
So the, like, Fortune in the Dark is a clever weave of 2 different games, right?1h 2m 11s
There's the in score elements to it.1h 2m 15s
And then there's the factional elements that play out over a campaign, in the nature of the story that we've planned out.1h 2m 21s
I don't think those factional elements really evolve that much.1h 2m 25s
They're more a given.1h 2m 27s
And as a result, like a lot of the consequences that you can throw at the table, then get neutered, where now you're standing with a particular faction increases or decreases because you took these actions, or like the heat mechanic would have to be reflavored entirely because at no stage do you get a higher chance of being discovered by the people, which is, I think, the easiest one-to-one correlation there.
Rocky
Hmm.1h 2m 49s
Hmm.
Jords
So I think at best then you'd be trimming it back to something more like a cyberplus punk, which just lives in the session.1h 3m
And I think could work okay.1h 3m 2s
But I just don't think it's as tight as something, like ties as well to something like a fate.1h 3m 11s
Like, could be done, but like, it's too much like squeezing 5E into it, you know?
Rocky
I was about to say, well, we're talking about could be done, but.
Jords
Yeah, I absolutely would not do this in fighting.
Rocky
I just don't think there's any point if you're not getting to play with the, you know, toys.1h 3m 32s
I think you'd spend far too long trying to write ability, like, you know, character abilities for 10 different types of toys and I don't think you'd actually get to play.
Jords
Mm-hmm.1h 3m 43s
+5 to slinkiness.
Rocky
Right? Like it's...
Jords
When you're rolling a D20 and adding a modifier, the modifier has to be huge to more convincingly affect the role.1h 3m 55s
And if you're one thing that you're really good at is being a slinky and you have to roll for that with a significant chance of failure, it's not a really good modelling of that fiction.1h 4m 3s
And if you overcome that by saying, well, you've got expertise in it and you've actually got +10,1h 4m 9s
Well, then why are you doing this at all?1h 4m 10s
Like, it's fighting the system as opposed to playing well off.
Rocky
Yeah.1h 4m 15s
No, yeah, you're exactly right.1h 4m 16s
Just so it's on record, I also probably wouldn't bother in 5A.1h 4m 19s
If you're a Mad Keen 5E head.1h 4m 21s
What you can do is, I think, borrow some of the stuff from this and run a really good honey, I shrunk the kids.1h 4m 31s
If you drop the Pixar like story with heart vibes, if you drop the, people can't see us mechanics, um, and if you drop the like the, the bit where they're toys, uh, and have their own little like special feature.
Jords
Then you'd be plain mouse ridder.
Rocky
Kind of yes.1h 4m 47s
You could get a similar kind of vibe just by like shrinking your players, having them plucked out of whatever and having their task to be, you know, getting back home.1h 4m 57s
And I think you can hit a lot of the same beats, but I don't think you can make them toys.1h 5m 1s
I think it just becomes a you've been shrunk story.1h 5m 4s
But you can, like, you know, you can still have loads of fun with your environments.1h 5m 8s
I think you can still have loads of fun with challenges.
Jords
I think it works at low level.
Rocky
As soon as they get access to the enlarged spell, it's all over.
Jords
I was thinking fly, because fly just undoes a lot of spatial relationships and spatial problems.
Rocky
That's true.
Jords
I was like, ah, you're really small, but you can just fly, you can reach that doorknob easy, no big deal.
Rocky
You don't want them to have fly.1h 5m 32s
What you want them to have is the lesser known spell full with style.1h 5m 38s
Which actually, now that I think about it, might just be Featherfall.
Jords
It is.1h 5m 41s
I definitely thought that's what you're going for there.
Rocky
So yeah, look, that's one of the reasons I wanted to do this app is because you can't necessarily do Toy Story in 5V, but I think if that's the kind of story that you're interested in telling and you have some low-ish level characters or you're happy to DM fiat away the enlarged spell, then I think as a structure for A, we've all been shrunk, as a structure for a, that kind of little couple of session, one shoddy, mid-camp Sorry, arc, I think you could do a lot worse than looking at Toy Story.
Jords
Mm.1h 6m 19s
All right, that's it.1h 6m 20s
We've done Toy story.
Rocky
We've done Toy Story.
Jords
We've done prison breaks.1h 6m 24s
We've done small people, big world.
Rocky
Yep, we've done once again, buddy movies and going through personal change and trauma at the table.
Jords
Man, that's such a weird element to always keep coming up in these stories we tell each other at the table.1h 6m 41s
So strange.
Rocky
Uh, we've done a good excuse to get all of your toys out and just play with them.
Jords
Yeah.
Rocky
And that's really all we want.
Jords
Bring that 2000 point army out of the cabinet to the table.
Rocky
Not like that.1h 6m 57s
Cool.1h 6m 58s
So look, thanks for tuning in, everybody.1h 6m 59s
This has been Platonics.1h 7m 2s
I've been rocky.
Jords
I continue to be Jords.
Rocky
CJ, continuously Jords.1h 7m 7s
Continuing Jords.
Jords
The continuum of Jords.
Rocky
Uh, so you can find us, obviously, wherever you listen to your podcasts, because you're listening to them right now.1h 7m 17s
Keep that up.1h 7m 18s
We love it.1h 7m 19s
We're also online on a website at platonics.net.1h 7m 22s
You can find all of our old episodes there, show notes, transcripts and our newsletter.1h 7m 28s
We're on the text-based socials.1h 7m 30s
So Blue Sky, Mastodon, and Threads, we're on Reddit, uh, under you slash platonics.1h 7m 39s
I tend to run the text-based socials and they're mostly Snark about whatever media I'm consuming for the show.1h 7m 45s
The Reddit is mostly Jaws, and it tends to be much more substantive and thoughtful commentary about role-playing games.1h 7m 52s
So pick your poison there.
Jords
And over the last couple of weeks, recommending Shadow of the Weird Wizard.
Rocky
The place we'd really love to see you, though, is on discord.1h 8m 2s
There's an invite link in the description, or in your show notes, and we would love to have you hop in there and share your hot RPG takes, and also what things you'd like to see us, you know, pull apart and put back together on the show.1h 8m 19s
We are always looking for ideas, and sometimes we get to do multiple ideas in one episode like we did today.1h 8m 26s
The last thing I will ask you to do is if you have enjoyed listening to this and you want to give it a go, please send it to your game master.1h 8m 33s
If you are a game master, please send it to one of your other game master friends.1h 8m 39s
And if you do that, and successfully run some of the things that we have talked about on the show.1h 8m 46s
Hop on the discord and tell us.1h 8m 48s
We would love to hear about people putting them in to practice.1h 8m 51s
All right, that's the show.1h 8m 52s
Thanks so much for joining us.1h 8m 54s
You've got a friend in us and we'll see you next month.
Jords
Love you boy.
Rocky
Love you, bye.